Oliver’s LinkedIn post


#1

Hi All

Worth reading Oliver’s post on LinkedIn regarding the bbl process, he’s copied all relevant party’s into the post and also there are some interesting comments underneath from pretty heavy hitting financiers & Fintech start up CEO’s

One of comments underneath from : Richard John Vernon

“One would hope Dr. Oliver Prill that they would allow Tide access to the term funding scheme. I assume the hesitancy in providing funding directly is two fold:

  1. If not able to fund from the term lending scheme, there would be an initial fiscal cost. (Although with a deficit at c£350bn this year, the question as to whether this matters?). And the net balance sheet cost is neutral…

  2. If providing funding through Tide, unsure how this would sit with state aid rules. (Although again, unprecedented times, so could be waved through). If the political will is there, then it will get done.

Genuinely I would like to reach out to you Oliver and see if there are any buttons we can help you press. I already assume Tide is employing outside Lobbyists to try and bring about this change.”

??

As angry and frustrated with this whole situation we are it could be worth giving Tide an extra extended benefit of the doubt on this until the final bell has been rung.

If you leave the list and go elsewhere you could end up shooting yourself in the foot, I do really believe that Oliver and tide have the best interests of their customers at heart all be it they have undoubtedly dealt with some factors in questionable ways… but this situation hasn’t been easy for anyone.

Link to original post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dr-oliver-prill-11022813_big-banks-cut-off-credit-to-smes-activity-6688004048349659136-VrC_


#2

For anyone not on LinkedIn the other replies:


#3

As can clearly be seen it’s not unnoticed by people in the industry & no doubt given the scale of the problem something very well may be done, these are obviously weighted individuals in the banking / U.K. tech / startup space.

Based on the above personally (for now) intend to keep helping tide where I can and keep trying to put pressure on where I can.

Mp’s, treasury etc…

monzo I’ve spoke to various times to get them behind this aswel at which they’re getting back to me early this week, they are in a position to help lobby on our behalf & given it’s in their interests, they bloody well should do !!

Keep the faith.


#4

All good points. But what advice re a businesses rights, legal and otherwise? I never read anything about that. Are all qualifying businesses LEGALLY entitled to a BBL? Is BBB required to ensure they get a BBL? Or is it just a “free for all” with BBB providing a Treasury Guarantee but, if no liquidity in the market, not their issue? Nowhere have a seen a post setting out what are the “legal rights” of a business re BBL. That would be helpful.


#5

You can read the legal terms on the bbb website, as with almost all legal terms they caveat, basically all other terms are null and void if they see fit.

Ie: we remain the right to cancel the scheme & each bank remains the right to decide who it helps.

Not to mention, none of us (alone) stand a chance of challenging any legal right or otherwise.

Legal terms aside I think a major point, many reasons why not giving tide the funds sends out the wrong message not only to us banking with a challenger but also to any new challenger/ start up company who tries to operate in such a space.

It hampers innovation. Not really the message you want to send out to companies considering operating in the U.K.


#6

Agree and all points well made. ONe thought is maybe some (predatory) law firm sees some kind of “class action” here and the threat of that could be used as leverage against Gov, Banks or BBB. But I agree a long shot.

My main point is around rights re banks. Surely if one meets BBB criteria for BBB, and no fraud markers, bansk cannot turn down businesses just “because they feel like it”? There must be some binding obligation on the banks to “act reasonably” and if they do not, then some kind of action or sanction?

Also, I am getting lots of “offers of funding” at 8% plus - so there is money there, but people do not want to lend to SMEs, or to Tide, at 2.5% or so. They want to make more money out of us. But whole point of BBL was (a) speed and (b) low(ish) interest rate - so SMEs could have certainty and recover fast.


#7

@Jtreacher Yes you’re right, perhaps that could happen if people grouped together then a lawsuit may develop down the road, i for one wouldn’t let it go.

Well any bank has the choice to accept an application or not, that’s the bottom line, the bank isn’t a government corporation, they’re privately owned and with that they are well within their rights to turn down customers for what ever they deem fit.

This is another of the big screw ups of the scheme, perhaps intentional, they go on tv saying it’s for everyone and at that get large support but when looking closer, it is but only if a bank decides so.

Your last point imo is exactly why banks don’t want to give to tide or indeed many small firms, why would they want to lend at 2.5% when they can try and squeeze 8/15% out of a company, hence why they are still credit checking. Realistically tho they are shooting themselves in the foot, if businesses go under and jobs are lost it effects everyone, including their customer ability to pay their loans through a market size diminishing.

Thoughts on letter to mp’s & Treasury.

  1. Personal circumstance
  2. Punished for supporting a challenger bank, highlight some info out of this article: https://appgfintech.org.uk/news/challenger-banks-boosted-government/ - article highlights why we considered it safe to bank elsewhere and now we have been emotionally and financially punished.
  3. Ability to operate without the support / not operate
  4. Problems faced trying to open accounts elsewhere

Can you think of anything else to add ?


#8

Huw van Stenis was the senior advisor to Mark Carney who was of course the governor to the Bank of England.

This situation isn’t going unnoticed.


#9

https://t.co/xRWPfAPxDE https://t.co/xRWPfAPxDE


#10

Game over then ?

Ffs.


#11

Need clarification from tide:

@Yani_at_Tide , @Obi_at_Tide

Can we please have clarification from you / Oliver if the above article is the case as you can imagine it’s pretty urgent.


#13

Thanks for bringing this up, @Cam and @Andyp1966

I myself and the team here might not be the best equipped to advise on this immediately, but we are going to be looking into it with our colleagues who have been working in this regard.

Regards,
Obi


#14

Fair enough obi we need to know what is going on, if Oliver intends to appeal or if he has any other options.

This is urgent, this news was in the paper at 9am it’s now 2pm.


#15

Obi.

We need to know the answer to this before the close of play today.

This is a must.

The moderators have been absent since Friday and we now need proper responses.


#16

Hi Andy,
Which date was that article in the times published?


#17

Hi Pelican.

The article was posted at 9am today.


#18

That’s not good news.


#19

It’s the End of Tide I’m afraid.


#20

I am so confused as to what to do? I am assuming Tide will never get any money. But want to keep account open, but NOT if that then jeapordises my ability to get a BBL elsewhere. Surely Tide shodl just take everyone OFF its list and makes sure the “market” knows this and then people free to go elsewhere with no hindrance. Or something else I am just staggered that Tide even needed to report people being on a list? Why would you report anyone on any “list” when no money to lend. Really Tide have made a mess of this at all levels. And I do NOT belive it is a requirment to avoid fraud to report people on “lists”. Only report to BBB etc when people make an actual APPLICATION.


#21

Thank you for sharing here as well @Jtreacher

I’ve provided a more specific answer to what you’ve asked here Denied BBL as Tide reports active application?

I do appreciate that this is concerning and I will echo what I said here as well - if you or any of our members is encountering difficulty with approaching other lenders, please reach out to the Member Support team in the app so they can assist you.

Regards,
Obi