Denied BBL as Tide reports active application?


#21

Sorry to keep you all waiting, apologies for the vagueness in my previous responses, it was simply a matter of having to check this with the teams that have the details you need.

All BBL lenders, including us, are required to share information of those who have registered interest, to prevent fraud and loan duplication. Our waitlist is a registration of interest, not an application. If a lender needs confirmation of this we will gladly provide it.

I hope that clears this up for you all, if you’d like to ask for confirmation, the best place for that would be the in-app chat.

Regards,
Obi


#22

Share with who ??
Their is a serious issue here regarding data protection!!
Please advise as a matter of urgency
Thanks


#23

Tide repeated said that we were not guaranteed a loan and that there was nothing to prevent us “looking elsewhere”. Now we know that Tide has advised all other BBL lenders that we have registered an interest in BBL’s and the information shared is preventing us getting help elsewhere. We should not have to ask via in app chat for anything. Tide MUST immediately contact all other BBL Lenders as say that None of the people on the registered interest list have active applications and are free to seek support elsewhere. It is not efficient for 70k of us to ask for written confirmation when all you need to do is contact a couple of dozen BBL Lenders.


#24

First point of contact should be Oliver. He has to promise that TIDE will lend to all businesses on a waiting list already provided Tide gets a government funding.

Lending subject to British Business Bank public criteria without any own conditions added.


#25

And certainly nowhere was it stated on Tide site that by getting on a List that information was discloseable to any third parties? I would have thought the mere fact of a businesses wanting/needig to borrow money is confidential information. It certainly implies a level of “financial distress” which I would not want my competitors or creditors to be aware of. Yes, if and when I have actually BORROWED money then that can and should be recorded. But the fact I am “seeking to borrow”? That is private and confidential information and I did NOT give Tide permission, express or implied, to share that information with anyone. Not did Tide state that getting on a list would result in the information being made public. I think a huge breach of GDPR here


#26

Thank you all for adding to the discussion here.

I’d like to clarify for those of you concerned with how we’re processing your data. Whenever any business owner registers interest or directly applies for a Bounce Back Loan, they are subject to customer fraud, AML (Anti-Money Laundering) and KYC (Know Your Customer) checks.

This is outlined on the BBB’s website in the information regarding the BBLS as well as in the T&Cs from our side, specifically under clause 13.1 onward. https://static.tide.co/BBLSTermsandConditions.pdf

Part of these checks do require that we share data in order to reduce the risk that a single business or individual trader will be able to apply and receive multiple BBLs. Even so, we are aware that some of our members have met with resistance due to simply having expressed their interest, which is not our intent and we will be assisting you all in providing confirmation.

I do not believe this is something we can provide broadly, but I would recommend that you write to the Member Support team via the app so that they can assist you more directly.

Thank you again for your patience!

Regards,
Obi


Oliver’s LinkedIn post
#27

Having read these terms, I do not see any specific clauses where indicating potential interest in taking out a BBL is informaiton that one consents to share with others. Where is that specifically? Please show me. Also, information shared should be on company alone, and that information only shared when loan “formally applied for” and/or actually given. Te fact I have approaced a bank, or indeed any lender, to enquire about a loan is NOT information that should be shared. I do not see any obligation to disclouse to anyone when people have just indicated an interest in applying. Yes, when loan going through, key for lender to check that borrower not getting a second loan for the same company. I accept that, but I just do not see where it is set out anywhere that an expression of ingerest in potentially applying for a loan is a discloseable matter to anyone - or something anyone consens to have disclosed. But maybe I am mising something?


#28

But you dont have to do aml or kyc checks on existing members obi. And if you did, those dont have to be shared until you apply surely?


#29

Is the reason you cannot resolve this issue 'broadly ’ because of how you ‘shared’ our data with other lenders. In the section about how Tide would ‘use customers information’ you only talk about Credit Reference Agencies. I think that what you have done is run a CRA check on everyone who has expressed an interest (which should only happen during formal application). When we go to other lenders and follow their formal application process they legitimately run a CRA check…and that bounces back that we have “applied” to Tide. You can’t contact the other BBL lenders because you didn’t directly share the info in the first place. You put our data into the CRA system… and you cannot undo that or run another process that tells the CRA’s that you wrongly performed a CRA check. If this is what has happened (and we will be able to prove this if it has) Tide carried out CRA checks on 70k members outwith a formal lending/borrowing process. Tell me I’m wrong. Tell me that you haven’t shared our data with CRA’s outwith a formal borrowing process.


#30

It must be to do with their pre-approved way of doing things. So Tide does a background check of you for you to be pre-approved when it is your time to apply. Make sense? But it should NOT be like that. It’s simply the Tide’s way of trying to be smart


#31

2.2. The total principal amount of the Bounce Back Loan shall be determined by Tide
Capital in its sole and absolute discretion and will be communicated to you via the Tide Platform

As per rules it’s up to a borrower to indicate how much he wish to borrow up to 25% of a turnover.

Tide simply planned to offer some random pre approved amounts?

2.7. Tide Capital’s obligation to grant you a Bounce Back Loan is subject to the following
conditions being met by you:
a) the Drawdown Request is properly submitted by you within the Availability
Period; and
b) you are not in breach of any representations and warranties set out in Clause 7.

  1. Your Representations and Warranties

d) your business, your business’s and your directors’ credit scores have not
materially changed since the date you entered into these BBL Terms;

i) you are not aware, or could not reasonably be expected to be aware, of any
circumstances that would adversely affect your business’ or your directors’
credit scores.

These BBL Terms including the Final Offer and the Repayment Schedule are the
complete and exclusive statement regarding the subject matter of these BBL Terms
and supersede all prior agreements, understandings and communications, oral or
written, between the parties regarding the subject matter of these BBL Terms.

Many business and directors credit scores could change and BBL scheme addressed that matter by making its clear that BBL applications are not to be credit scored and a self certified statement is all that is required. It also allows to lend to businesses in difficulty as per EU Temporary Framework 3rd amendment.

I suggest without any delay to consult a lawyer to outline in which way TIDE actions caused damages to TIDE members and whether a breach of any applicable legislation have occurred.


Email template for Mp's & Treasury
#32

Of course some peoples credit scores are going to change in the length of time spent on the list! Most have run out of funds and are missing payments which is the whole point of applying for the BBL in the first place. I cant see why that was added to their terms.
And credit scoring isnt allowed anyway


#33

Yep.

Event hosted by Rishi Sunak. Perhaps we can direct attention to both Tide breaching the spirit of BBLS and potential remedy - it should be Tide agreeing in a very simple transparent terms to issue BBL to an entire waiting list at least in exchange for a Government or Government facilitated funds.

Rishi Sunak BBL offer is using most of the EU temporary framework legal relief for SMEs.


#34

Mate with respect the government have 3m people chasing them for no support & clearly, this far couldn’t give a hoot about tide.

Banks can put in whatever terms they see fit, read the bbl terms on the british business bank website… banks can set out their own terms, they are private companies.

Why do you think all of us have t gone to Hsbc ?

Have tide changed the terms recently ? I’ve never seen those clauses before.


#35

d) your business, your business’s and your directors’ credit scores have not
materially changed since the date you entered into these BBL Terms;

@Obi_at_Tide as per note above, “the date you entered into these terms” is that when you join the list or when you get offered a loan ?


#36

Out of interest where are people upto with HSBC application for feeder account? I have verified address with code and provided signature specimen in branch today. Anyone aware of timescales from hereon in?


#37


#38

Yes https://ec.europa.eu/competition/state_aid/what_is_new/TF_consolidated_version_amended_3_april_8_may_and_29_june_2020_en.pdf

Does not directly say that government can mandate banks to issue BBLs to every business that meets scheme eligibility.

It does provide various solutions. One of them is repayable loan. Government can create a government tasked with issuing BBLs to every business that is qualified as per EU temporary framework criteria and related UK support measure as approved by EU commission.

Tide potentially can try and present themselves as a financial intermediary who can be tasked with it however looking at their current terms and conditions it does seems that they not willing to comply in full and therefore TIDE could be bypassed and if there have been any breaches of GDPR fined.

Unless Tide Ceo states irrevocably in writing now that they voluntary resign their right to add extra conditions and will apply the minimum qualifying conditions and will lend to entire waiting list whom their qualified already via KYC and AML on account opening, lend to a degree specified by applicant such as 25% of the turnover.

  1. TEMPORARY STATE AID MEASURES
    Limited amounts of aid
  2. Beyond the existing possibilities based on Article 107(3)© TFEU, temporary limited
    amounts of aid to undertakings that find themselves facing a sudden shortage or even
    unavailability of liquidity can be an appropriate, necessary and targeted solution during
    the current circumstances.
  3. The Commission will consider such State aid compatible with the internal market on the
    basis of Article 107(3)(b) TFEU, provided that all the following conditions are met (the
    specific provisions for the primary agriculture, the fishery and aquaculture sectors are
    set out in point 23):
    a. The overall aid does not exceed EUR 800 000 per undertaking. The aid may be
    granted in the form of direct grants, tax and payment advantages or other forms
    such as repayable advances, guarantees, loans and equity provided the total
    nominal value of such measures remains below the overall cap of EUR 800 000 per
    undertaking; all figures used must be gross, that is, before any deduction of tax or
    other charge;
    b. the aid is granted on the basis of a scheme with an estimated budget;
    c. Aid may not be granted to undertakings that were already in difficulty (within the
    meaning of the General Block Exemption Regulation16) on 31 December 2019;
    c.bis In derogation to the above, aid can be granted to micro or small enterprises (within
    the meaning of Annex I of the General Block Exemption Regulation) that were
    already in difficulty on 31 December 2019 provided that they are not subject to
    collective insolvency procedure under national law, and that they have not received
    rescue aid or restructuring aid.

There are other legal measures provided by EU commission that UK government can use to ensure that BBLs are distributed to every eligible business interested in having one.

Kindly read information in the following link and accompanying information.


#39

Sam the government have broken EU laws multiple times, although we are technically still members the fact the date has passed for revoking and unless we are going to go to war for it it doesn’t mean anything.

“Brussels officials have started legal action against Britain for ignoring freedom of movement rules during the Brexit transition period - on the same day as the European Union’s top court found the UK had handed City traders an illegal tax break. “ and you think they care about us or tide?

The conservatives are writing the rules now.

I honestly thinking you’re flogging a dead horse here mate I understand we all want same objective but imo your energy is best spent lobbying and some trust towards tide.

Disclaimer: all political views are my own and not the views of Tide or any other member of Tide, not everyone refers to conservatives as cons or thinks brexit will be a trainwreck. I do not enforce others views nor expect others mine nor do people have to read them.


#40

Hsbc after signiture verifying code etc all done. Took about 3 to 4 weeks to get feeder account open. Once opened look on your online portal as didn’t get an email telling me feeder account open.
You will need the feeder sort code and account which is on the portal then click on link for bbl. 2 weeks on after bbl application and uploading tax return. I’m still waiting to hear back. But got a funny feeling tide has turned us all over so will update when I get news from hsbc